wires in an attic

[Doug Diller]

The other day I was in an attic that had insulation covering the joists.  I moved some of the insulation so I could take a step or two into the attic.  I discovered that wires were running along the top of the joists (see photo).  I wasn't sure if this is something I should call out.  The chances that someone would step on the wires or put something over them since insulation is all over is not so great.  However; I guess it's still possible.  What are your thougts.

[Casey Patten]

Doug, that would be a definate call out for me.  As you stated, if someone walked on them or set something down on them, there is the chance that the insulation could be cut, exposing live (assuming they are live) wires. 

[Frank Newman]

I agree that it is tecnically incorrect; however, I am afraid we are fighting a losing battle on this one.  I see wiring laying over joists in virtually every house I inspect, but I only call it out if the wires are on top of flooring apparently used for storage, or worse, if the flooring is laying on top of the wiring.  The fact is that there probably no one who is going to have an electrician come in and disconnect all the wiring in the attic, drill holes through the joists and reinstlal it all.  Calling it out will just make the realtors mad at me ! Just my practice, however, since that area involved is not living space.

[Ian Niquette]

I tend to see that in older homes in my area. The electricians here tend to run inside the joist in the newer homes now, but yes it is technically incorrect. I probably wouldn't call it out though, as it will not get changed anyway.

[Casey Patten]

Technically incorrect or not...if we look at it from a typical homeowner attitude of "hey, there's all that great room up in my attic, let's shove stuff up there"...isn't it better if they realize there is the potential of damaging exposed wires?  I'm with you guys on the fact that 1 in 100 homeowners is going to actually change the situation, but I see it as letting them know there is still a problem that could be made worse by careless walking or storage...just my opinion...

[Bert de Haan]

I can't see that letting your client know about the wires being on top of the joists is going to be a deal killer.  Wouldn't it just be considered a courtesy to make them aware of it?

[Davin Strand]

I see it in almost every new home around here.

[Ian Niquette]

Point well taken Casey. I may start including it in my reports.

[Doug Diller]

Thanks for all the feedback.  I think I'm going to mention it next time but not put it as a current safety issue.  Just an FYI for the home buyer.

[Frank Newman]

If that were the only "what if" item you had to mention, it may be ok, but if we start putting too many of that type of item in every report, I can promise you that you will start finding that some real estate agents will begin steering their clients' business elsewhere.  Most clients seem to lke a lot of detail while most realtors would like to see only critical items reported; it is a tightrope inspectors have to walk everytime they write a report.  Personally, I would prefer to mention such items during the inspection itself, assuming that the buyer is present.

[Jay Markanich]

I tend to agree with Casey.  I too see this practice everywhere.   But, as you all know, people tend to use the attic storage shed so much it affects their heating and AC from crushed insulation (then they complain...).  I especially see this done when ceiling fans are retrofitted.  The cables are running everywhere and mostly hidden by insulation such that you can't tell.  Now and then I will see a cable follow the truss down toward the fan.

But, I also agree with Frank in that it is done everywhere.  Most people, including agents and buyers, would see it as picky and a "what if" inspection item.  It could kill business.

The only way to call it out would be to identify specific codes on the report.  Anyone have any?

[Gary Fitzgerald]

Thats just the way it's done, we use romex to save time and money. As far as I know there is no code against it. The fact of the matter is an attic is not designed or intended for storage. But as said people do use it that way

[Casey Patten]

From the posts here, let's agree on this; we're between the perverbial "rock and a hard place".  We all want to do our absolute best job for every client, even if it's a "nit picky" detail.  Yet, we are in this to make money and take care of our families too! 
Frank, I would agree that mentioning to a client during the inspection is a good plan...BUT, we all know most clients aren't exactly going to pay attention or remember everything during a 3 hour inspection.  Putting it in writing, even if it's not a critical issue, might at least get it looked at once!
And, on Frank's side...most realtors are going to roll their eyes if they see that in a report.  BUT...let's all remember, they have a vested financial interest in selling a home to their client.  Yes, the good agents are going to look after the folks they work for, but I'd guess the big $$$$$ cross their minds as well...
I think we do what we feel is right in our book.  While there may not be a code or regulation for every situation we come across...I know I do this because I enjoy having clients tell me "Thank you", whether they buy a home I inspect or not.  I say that I mention it because I've seen plenty of attics where Romex is spliced w/ wire nuts, broken, uninsulated...you name it...and I haven't even been at this that long!  I know my clients appreciate the time and effort I put in...

[Casey Patten]

Here's why I would mention wiring in the attic that is easily accessible to any homeowner...

Unsecured wiring, pig tails everywhere, and exposed LIVE wiring hanging out in one attic...

[Jay Markanich]

Looks like before and after the retrofitted ceiling fans Casey!

[Casey Patten]

Actually, if I remember correctly, there were no ceiling fans...just flush mount lights in each room! 

[Ian Niquette]

What's the big deal? They ran it in conduit.

[Davin Strand]

Are you buried under snow Jay?

[Jay Markanich]

See my post?

[Jarrod Goforth]

I see a lot here in N.C.