Inspection checklist/software and insurance - getting started

[Greg Spraggins]

Hey all,
Just passed the HI test for Oklahoma.  Now it's time to get the tools together and get to work, but a couple of things to figure out first that I could use some help with.

For Okla, I'm required to have a General Liability policy, but not sure if that's enough.  Is an Error and Ommission (E&O) policy a good thing to have also?

Also, thinking I'd like to buy a reporting program to use, possibly Home Inspector Pro or something else, but haven't looked around yet.  For those who use electronic reports, is it easier to run these checklists during the inspection on a tablet or to do the inspection with a checklist and then fill out the electronic report?

Thanks ahead of time for any info.

Greg

[Dominic Maricic]

Hi Greg,

Each state is different as far as requirements go but most inspectors will carry both E&O and General Liability. In fact many insurers bundle them together. Check out Allen Insurances pay per inspection and GREIA for good rates.

Obviously I will be partial to Home Inspector Pro as I created it! The same will go for all our users on this forum You'll want to use a tablet like the CTL2Go or HP Slate 500 on site or just use a laptop in a central location in the home.

[Greg Spraggins]

Thanks for the feedback. The software looks great.  Does it include ability to print in case computer dies out during inspection, as well as seller disclosure and pre-inspection forms to sign with client?

Any preference to the tablets as far as which performs best with the software or is more durable/reliable?

[Dominic Maricic]

Yes you can click Generate Report to print a blank report.

The most widely used tablet is the CTL2Go from CTLCorp.com ,also sold as the Mirus tablet from Sears, Target and Walmart online. Check out the HP Slate 500 too which is one of my new favorites.

[Bruce Ramsey]

When polling other home inspectors you will find that people collect data using a variety of methods.  Printing a hardcopy list is a good idea for newer inspectors because it serves as a reminder to fill in all the boxes before you leave the site.  After a while, you will likley find the checklist to limiting. 

I know inspectors who use A)Voice recorder B)Tablet C)Camera D)Checklist E)Combination of methods.

I only use a camera.  Take a photo of defects and required Description items.  Upload all my photos.  If there is no photo, no problem.  If a photo, then I either need to include the information in the required description field or write a problem statement.  No paper, no recorder, no computer on site.  The only thing that is difficult to take a photo of are floor squeaks.

I use a consistent order when inspecting.  By veiwing the photos in sequence, I can easily recall which room or location of the defect.  I have a backup camera in the truck.  You will have to find your own reliable method to record data during an inspection.

[Greg Spraggins]

So I'm guessing you get your list of required Description items from your state's Standards. I'm also guessing it takes a few inspections to get your flow down as well.  Seems overwhelming right now as there are so many things to look at and it seems easire to have some form of checklist/tablet to help keep things clear.  I like the camera/recorder idea though.  I've wondered how difficult it will be to haul things around on a roof or an attic for an inspection.  Just a camera in the attic or crawlspace makes a lot of sense to keep things easy.

Thanks for the input.  This is really invaluable information to the new guy!

[Dominic Maricic]

You don't want to take anything on the roof but the camera to be safe. You can note your comments when you get down.

Start off inspecting your house and friends places to get comfortable.

[Cameron Anderson]

I also use a camera as my sole means of recording issues.  I build the report back at the office using the photos, and sometime videos. My camera is my Iphone which produces a 5 megapixel photo. Bob Elliot will say get the most megapixels you can, which is an argument with some merit as cropping a photo later is easier with a bigger photo to start with. I have found that the most important aspect of taking photos is framing, focus and lighting. Editing photos later is a lot simpler if you take the photos with your end result in mind.

I considered doing notes onsite, but juggling a tablet along with everything  else seemed too difficult. Many guys do just that and they do it very well, taking notes as they go through the home.  Bruce is dead on, having the checklist when you are first starting out is a good safety net.  Once your skills are honed it would make better sense to not do work twice(on paper and then on the computer).

I only differ from Bruce's description of his method in that I do bring the computer and I back up my photos before I leave the home. I do it three times during the inspection purposefully so that I can review the photos with my clients. It like that old saying, “Tell em what you're gonna tell em, Tell em, then tell em what you told em.”  Once my clients read the report they have seen the issues three times, once in person, once in my “photo review” and the in the report. I rarely get call backs.

You'll probably have to try a few things and find what's best for you. Dom is right, I would recommend HIP without hesitation. I reviewed every other program I could find and HIP is without a doubt the most flexible. Good Luck!

[Bruce Ramsey]

You have home inspector licensing in Oklahoma. ? If you follow the link below it will take you to the OK licensing page. ? CHapter 70 are the rules and laws governing home inspection. ? It specifically lists the items you must A)Inspect B)Describe C)Probe D)Operate E)Test. ? If you plan on operating in Oklahoma you better know that document backwards and forwards. Make sure you are Inspecting and Operating. ? Inspecting a dishwasher is different than Operating one. ? Your report should specifically describe that you Inspected and Operated when appropriate. ? 

http://www.ok.gov/cib/Rules_and_Regulations/index.html

Yes, it takes a few inspections to develop your own flow. ? Some inspectors use a top down, outside to inside method. ? Others follow an exterior, garage, mechanicals, interior, attic, crawl/basement. ? Some setup in the kitchen, head out for a room or 2 and then come back and enter into laptop on kitchen counter, head out again, inspect 2 rooms/areas return etc. ? It does not really matter as long as you develop a pattern and follow it to prevent overlooking some area.? 

The top down method allows you to run all the tubs, toilets, sinks, showers, tubs on the upper floors and then check for water staining as you move down. ? Some like to take a quick walk through the entire house just to get a mental picture of where things are before they actually "inspect". ? Some want to inspect the attic before walking the roof to find the soft spots and avoid falling thru. ? Some show up before the appt time to have some uninterrupted time to sizeup and get assembled.

Go on a few ridealongs with different inspectors before you every perform one for pay. ? Continue to go on ridealongs throughout your career. ? I mentored under a fella for 6 months. ? Great learning experience.? ? I have been on at least 5 ridealongs in 5 years with different inspectors. ? Everybody does it a little differently. ? Everytime I see something I want to incorporate or be sure never to do.
 

[Greg Spraggins]

This is all great feedback everyone and I can't thank you enough.  When I read the HI book (Carson and Dunlop) and took the HI course on line, there is no mention of inspecting any appliances, however I keep seeing you guys refer to them.  I'm guessing if it's a built in appliance, i.e. dishwasher/cooktop stove it needs to be inspected.  Where can I get info on what to look for on those, or do you just inspect for obvious problems and ensure operation, when required?  Same goes for hottubs/spas/pools.  I'm sure the client will want those inspected, but I'm not certified yet.  Is there something specific to become certified to check those, or how do you go about handling that?

[Cameron Anderson]

Ugh! (Warning: Rant starting) I would move out of Illinois if we had to inspect appliances. Why not make inspectors check the TV while we're at it? Or the phone lines? Or the whole-house vac?  Why on God's green earth should an inspector have to deal with a client who's microwave croaked and now they think you are responsible to the tune of $200.00?  How many inspectors would pay the money to just make those ridiculous claims go away?  What is most frustrating about appliance inspection requirements is the potential liability or false claims they could produce. I think it's absurd to make inspectors take on the liability of appliances and I would encourage the liberal use of disclaimers in your contract and report to remove as much liability for appliances as your state law would allow for. Let inspectors add appliances if they want, but don't saddle them with unreasonable liability by putting it in the state law. (End rant)

That being said, there are certainly classes out there which you could take for continuing ed, but I'm unfamiliar with it all so some other guys will have to direct you to them. I would encourage a ride along with a reputable appliance repairman. Obviously the plumbing, electrical and fuel connections will be part of the inspection, but they would be able to give you a short checklist of things to look for and then you should disclaim everything beyond those basic visual checks.

That's my 2 cents and since I don't inspect appliances, that's about all it's worth. 

[Stephen Stanczyk]

Built in appliances are easy.  Majority of stoves have 4 burners. All switched on.  They either work or they don't.  Same for the oven portion.  Usually 2 burners.  They either light or get hot or they don't.  I don't measure exact temps, just whether they get hot or not.  Check for anti-tip and done. Microwave heats a test bag in 10 seconds or it doesn't.  Dishwasher gets started at the beginning of the kitchen inspection.  That's enough time for the first wash cycle to finish and see if the soap door opens.  It may or may not finish by the time I am done.  If not, I just cancel and let it drain.  Refrigerator / freezer is temp measured and door seals checked.  Done.  Shouldn't take more than 3 or 4 minutes except the dishwasher.  I think clients would like to know if they are going to have to purchase a $400 stove, microwave or much spendier fridge.  It either works or it doesn't.  It shouldn't matter how efficient it works.

[Greg Spraggins]

Never heard of a microwave test bag. Where do you get those?  I remember a guy inspecing my house in Colorado. He popped a bag of popcorn and gave it to the clients to munch on while they walked around.

[Dominic Maricic]

Never heard of a microwave test bag. Where do you get those?  I remember a guy inspecing my house in Colorado. He popped a bag of popcorn and gave it to the clients to munch on while they walked around.

That's called good marketing

[Bruce Ramsey]

“…there is no mention of inspecting any appliances, however I keep seeing you guys refer to them. I'm guessing if it's a built in appliance, i.e. dishwasher/cooktop stove it needs to be inspected. Where can I get info on what to look for on those, or do you just inspect for obvious problems and ensure operation, when required?”

Your Oklahoma SOPs tell you what you need to know.  Read them, understand them, and live them.  Really, I mean it.  The OK SOPs have a list of definitions and it defines Inspect.  "Inspect" means to examine readily accessible systems and components of a building in accordance with these Standards of Practice, using normal operating controls and opening readily openable access panels.”  "Readily accessible" means available for visual inspection without requiring moving of personal property, dismantling, destructive measures, or any action which will likely involve risk to persons or property.”

The OK SOPs state you must inspect a specific list of kitchen appliances.  Visually examine accessible components using normal operating controls and opening readily access panels.  Based on the OK SOP definitions, there are no READILY ACCESSIBLE panels to be opened on the kitchen appliances.

So you will saunter into the kitchen and inspect the prescribed appliances.  You can optionally choose to ALSO inspect additional appliances like the laundry equipment if you choose to exceed the minimums of the state SOP.  I have included the OK SOPs below regarding Appliance Inspections. 

    Appliance inspection requirements.
(1)    The inspector shall inspect the:
(A)    Food waste disposal;
(B)    range/stove, regardless of whether it is an installed or free standing appliance;
(C)    cook top;
(D)    oven(s);
(E)    dishwasher;
(F)    ventilation equipment or range hoods;
(G)    installed microwave;
(H)    trash compactor; and,
(I)    gas appliance connectors and shut off valves.
(2)    The inspector shall describe the range/stove, cook top and oven(s) by the energy source.
(3)    The inspector is not required to:
(A)    operate appliances in all modes or self cleaning cycles; or,
(B)    inspect clocks, timers, thermostats or household appliances not listed in these standards.

Food Waste Disposal: Visually examine accessible components using normal operating controls and opening readily access panels. Check for any obvious physical damage, improper wiring, improper plumbing connections, leaks, rust, physical damage, missing rubber gasket, etc.  You will operate using normal controls by turning on water and flipping the wall switch.  It will make noise and whirr around a bit.  You listen to see if there are any unusual noises like objects that should not be in there, loose blades rattling around, etc.  Smell to see if the electric motor is burning.  Sniff to see if there is rotten food smell, sulfur, or other non-standard smells.  Did the countertop vibrate due to a worn bearing or bent motor shaft, flimsy metal sink, or poor physical connection?  Is the unit hardwired or does it use an appliance cord?  If hardwired, does the wiring follow accepted electrical wiring practices including support, protection from physical damage, and connection to a junction box?  Does the sink have a separate trap, share a trap or two traps.  Are they plumbed correctly?

Range/Stove/Oven: Visually examine accessible components using normal operating controls and opening readily access panels.  Check for anti-tip device.  Operate each burner individually.  Electric burners have a common failure pattern of working on high but not low.  I turn each burner on low first with my hand on the burner.  If it heats up, I remove my hand and turn to high.  Turn on oven.  If electric you can see the heating element glow orange.  If gas you can see the flames.  Either way, it the oven generates heat, it is good to go.  Turn off.  Note the OK SOP Not Required to inspect items.  You are not testing self cleaning cycles (takes about 4-5 hours), clocks, timers, and thermostats.  If the oven is set to 350 but heats to some other temperature, that is not your problem. All you are checking does it turn on and off.   

Dishwasher:  Visually examine accessible components using normal operating controls and opening readily access panels.  Oklahoma does not require it to be operated.  North Carolina SOP requires it be run in the normal cycle.  That is the first I do at an inspection since a normal cycle takes 1.5 hours.  But first I open the door and tug.  Is the dishwasher secured to the cabinetry?  Is it visually level and plumb?  Is there any physical damage?  Is the plastic coating cracked or missing on the racks?  Coating lasts on average 5-7 years.  If worn or cracked, going to be an older model.  Turn on and close door.  Let fill with water and start slinging water around.  Open the door to make sure it shuts off when the door is opened.  Check to see if the arm is a different position so you know it is spinning around.  Listen for knocking, banging or other irregular sounds.  Check the floor for any leaks.  Check drain hose to make sure it has a high loop.  (Google high loop if you don’t know what one is.)  I place a Watchdog Water Alarm in front of the dishwasher to alert me to leaking since I am not going to stand there for the next 1.5 hours.  It has alerted me to leaking DWs several times preventing any major water damage.

Ventilation Equipment: Visually examine accessible components using normal operating controls and opening readily access panels.  Turn on the fan.  Listen for irregular sounds.  Operate all 3 speeds.  Does it vent to the exterior or re-circulate?  Show the client that the filter is filthy and tell them to get a new one and clean it regularly.  If gas cooktop underneath, turn the gas cooktop on high.  Let heat for a minute or two.  Turn the gas cook top to low and turn the fan on to high.  Do the burners blow out?  Tell them to have the cook top burners serviced if they blow out.  If vented to the exterior, does is use a smooth wall 26 gauge metal duct to the exterior with a working hood and flapper?  Duct tape is flammable and not an acceptable repair.  Flexible ducts are not valid.  Venting to the attic or crawlspace is not valid. 

INSTALLED Microwave:  Visually examine accessible components using normal operating controls and opening readily access panels.  Notice the SOP says INSTALLED.  Microwave ovens sitting on the counter are personal property and not considered part of the real estate transaction.  They do not transfer with the house and are excluded from a home inspection.  I take a glass from the sink, dishwasher or cabinet and put a bit of water in it.  Place in micro and hit the 1 minute button.  Does the water get hot?  If the house is vacant with no glasses, I moisten a paper towel or toilet paper and cook for a bit.  Does it get hot?  Great, moving on.  Do the lights illuminate?  Does the fan ventilate? 

Trash compactor:  Visually examine accessible components using normal operating controls and opening readily access panels.  Open the drawer do ensure it opens and closes, secured to cabinetry, etc.  Push the compact button.  Look, listen and feel.  If there are any anomalies then report.

I don’t operate laundry equipment.  Personal property and not part of the real estate transaction.  I do inspect the washing machine hoses for obvious damage.  I do inspect the dryer duct.  There are lots of issues with dryer ducts. 

I can’t stress this enough.  Read, learn, live your SOP.  If you have any questions about what to inspect, refer back to the OK SOP.  The ASHI, NACHI, and NAHI SOPs are similar but differ from each other and the OK SOP.  You gotta follow the OK SOP first and foremost.  If you want to ALSO meet the various association SOPS then that is fine. 

The OK and ASHI SOPs deal with solid fuel BURNING appliances. They both have similar definitions. 

"Solid fuel burning appliances" means a hearth and fire chamber or similar prepared place in which a fire may be built and which is built in conjunction with a chimney; or a listed assembly of a fire chamber, its chimney and related factory-made parts designed for unit assembly without requiring field construction.”

The North Carolina SOP refers to solid fuel HEATING appliances.  “Solid fuel heating device” means any wood, coal, or other similar organic fuel burning device, including but not limited to fireplaces whether masonry or factory built, fireplace inserts and stoves, wood stoves (room heaters), central furnaces, and combinations of these devices.”  The NC SOP is more inclusive than OK or ASHI.

[Greg Spraggins]

Thank you Bruce.  I really appreciate the detail of how you do each. This is invaluable!  I'll make sure I understand the SOP top to bottom.

[Bruce Ramsey]

"...same goes for hottubs/spas/pools.  I'm sure the client will want those inspected, but I'm not certified yet.  Is there something specific to become certified to check those, or how do you go about handling that?"

Once again, refer to the OK SOPs.

"Recreational facilities" means spas, saunas, steam baths, swimming pools, exercise, entertainment, athletic, playground or other similar equipment and associated accessories.

(3)    The inspector is not required to inspect:
(D)    recreational facilities;


In different parts of the country swimming pools are more likely to exist.  Virtually no one has a pool in my area.  Florida and California almost everyone has a pool.  In those areas, most inspectors offer a pool inspection for an additional fee.  There are 3rd party certification bodies that teach and certify Pool Inspectors.  It is easier and less liability for me to refer to a local pool inspection/maintenance company for the 1 request every couple of years vs maintaining a certification.  Inspectors in Fl and CA inspect pools every day.  At $75 extra per inspection, it makes sense to be knowledgeable and/or certified.

[Cameron Anderson]

Nice description Bruce.  Love the details.  It's that kind of help that make a forum like this such a powerful resource.  For those of us who don't have pool, spa, laundry or other appliance requirements, Bruce made a good point in mentioning the inspection of the utility and ducting systems connected to the laundry. Make sure any utility connections and ductwork/vents are part of your inspection even if the component they connect to is outside the scope of your SOP, State or otherwise.

And after reading all this I can honestly say this is the first time I've been happy I inspect under Illinois law.   

[Joe Keresztury]

Cameron, you are lucky! You get to use the inspection form you want. In Texas we have to use the TREC form 7-1A or 2 whatever it is now. You notice on HIP and other inspection software there is a Texas inspection report section and no other states versions. We are the only ones.
As far as appliances go, agreeing w/ Steve S, (attached appliances- built ins) how hard is it to turn on burners to say they are functioning and also test for an anti tip device which is crucial. Oven temp- set at 350 and set a thermostat inside-is temp accurate or not, is dishwasher functioning? Real hard (not), how bout checking if there is a high loop drain line from dishwasher- pretty simple, just look. Is range exhaust vent working? disposal? - turn them on. Does the disposal have that rubber shield at sink opening, if not you can see the blades? In Texas we are required to test basic kitchen appliances, not utility room appliances, not refrig(s). The microwave if attached is checked. Greg, you asked about microwave test bags. Nachi gives you a free one. I left it on too long and the house smelled like burnt popcorn. Just turn it on, is it functioning? You asked for info for checking appliances: here are blogs for anti tip and dishwasher drain high loops at my HIP website: http://www.jwkhomeinspections.com/blog/san-antonio-home-inspector-joe-keresztury-anti-tip-bracket.html and
http://www.jwkhomeinspections.com/dishwasher-high-loop-drain-line.html
 .

[Casey Patten]

Curiosity question:  how many anti-tip brackets do you find in place during an inspection?