New "Insert List" features

[Ryan Hoechten]

 I am hoping to get some ideas on how others are using the Insert List feature that became availible on the updated version. All Ideas welcome.

[Dominic Maricic]

Hi Ryan,

There's been quite a bit of discussion here and in the beta section on it. Check out some of the threads.

[Dana Bostick]

I've actually started using it a lot. When I inspect on a smaller screen like my 8 inch Motion LS-800, the full page of comments in long form are pretty useless,  Everything is severely truncated and your cannot tel what the comment says. The hover over tool tip often does not work for me so I have to open each comment to read it. Big time waster.

My new template makes extensive use of the "lists" function since many times that's all that is needed.
Things like Yes/No,/ Left,Right,Front,Back / Bath #1, Bath #2 etc. You get the idea. Pretty much, any question or comment that involves a multiple choice answer lends itself to a drop-down list. If you structure your comments properly, lists can be very helpful and make the actual inspection go much faster.  I've been "trialing" my newest template with some dummy inspections for layout purposes and they can be filled in pretty rapidly thanks to the drop-down lists.
Dana

[Dominic Maricic]

Make sure you have the new photo slideshow feature set to replace red/black so that you have more screen space designated to the comments. I saw someone the other day with the default enabled and on a small screen that's a huge waste of space.

[Cameron Anderson]

One of my biggest uses for the list feature is in my "Electrical Wiring" tab. I realized I could write one or two comments using lists which would cover almost every possible wiring defect I might come across. My main wiring comment is:

There<<WIRING DEFECTS>> at the<<LOCATION>><<LOCATION>><<LOCATION>>.

My list of defects is written like so:

 is a reverse polarity outlet
 is a three-prong ungrounded outlet
 are multiple three-prong ungrounded outlets
 is an exposed splice with no junction box

My list of locations has directions, rooms and systems in it and gets extensive use in my comments. Most of my lists entries are 1-2 words except on the wiring. The wiring list of defects has 40-50 defects, some singular and plural, which covers every wiring defect possible in the wiring throughout the house.

This allows me to not have to sift through 40-50 full comments, I am able to look through a list of 24 short phrases at a time in the list and specifically notate each individual wiring issue and it's specific location.  Realtors, client, and electricians all like that level of detail, as I have had compliments from each.

I've got several other ways I'm using list but it's off to bed for now. I'll try to throw more ideas up here later.

[Cameron Anderson]

Oh and I should mention that I don't go into much more detail about wiring issues and what can occur if the are not fixed. The beginning of the wiring section has a disclaimer which states that ALL electrical issues must be repaired no matter the "importance" because they can all cause death.

That's the reason I took that approach with wiring. Otherwise, all my recommendations would have been incredibly redundant.

[Dana Bostick]

Great idea Cameron, I'll have to look at expanding the possibilities of the "list" feature.
Yes, the redundancy issue is a big problem.  Using lists really reduces or eliminates it.

I'm modifying a template from another inspector. No need to reinvent the wheel and start from scratch is the concept.
My biggest gripe is the comments in a damage panel that don't belong in that panel and have nothing to do with it.
I think the copy and paste can create unintentional problems if used indiscriminately.

I find way too many very specific to one inspection comments buried in there. "The lower floor bathroom window on the left side of the green hallway near the foyer has a crack". ROFLMAO  I think the reason for that is that the main comment gets edited on the left panel before clicking it over to the right side.  It should be clicked over as a black or red comment THEN edited.

[Dominic Maricic]

I find way too many very specific to one inspection comments buried in there. "The lower floor bathroom window on the left side of the green hallway near the foyer has a crack". ROFLMAO  I think the reason for that is that the main comment gets edited on the left panel before clicking it over to the right side.  It should be clicked over as a black or red comment THEN edited.

I need to find a better way to get that across as I see the same thing. The new version of HIP has a startup news page with recent message board posts, upcoming events AND HIP TIP's. I'll definitely make sure to post this one there!

[Dana Bostick]

On most of the templates I have worked on or opened to look at, I see the same thing. The damage panels are chock-full of comments, about half of which don't even relate to this section at all. The first time I saw that was on the default SFR template that's provided with HIP to start out with. it looked like someone had just gone through every template they could get their hands on and grabbed every comment that even remotely related to the area.  On a closer look, way too many of them are not related, don't apply or are non sequitur.  You really need to dig down deep in every template you're going to use to make sure there's not a lot of garbage comments in there that you don't need.

while working on my current "new SFR template" I found myself eliminating or significantly rewriting about 70 to 80% of the comments. This is when I had the bright idea to start making more use of the "list" feature. Doing so significantly reduced the amount of real estate the comments took up on the screen. 

It makes a lot more sense to use "The window in the <<list>> bathroom could not be opened", than to list each and every possibility as an individual comment. This was a style I was working with on some of the templates I was looking at and since every comment started out with the same few words in the sentence and on my small screen the balance of the comment was cut off, I had to pause and hover over each one or actually open it to see which one applied to what I was doing.
That process significantly slows down the inspection. Now, with a new technique I can fly right along, noting the defects as I see them without having to stop and figure out which comment I need to use. (While wading through a crap load that didn't even apply!)

Think a very good discussion thread, even made "sticky", would be one about how to actually use the program efficiently and how to alter/customize templates properly. I understand that there is a huge variance in the style (and writing ability) that everyone uses. That's one of the benefits of using HIP, you can totally personalize your report due to its flexibility. The downside, like any very flexible program, is that one has to figure out how to use the tools available by actually using the tools!

LOL- Sorry about being so long-winded, I'm sort of in my "writing mode" this morning and Dragon Naturally Speaking makes it all too easy to get wordy.

[Dana Bostick]

Since we are on the subject of template design, I have another question. As I work on various templates and layouts, I noticed a consistent fault. Many times a long comment is truncated or cut off at about 1/3 to 1/2 the screen width of that particular panel, even if it's a full width "Selection" panel. It will have the first five or six words of the comment and then stop, leaving half the available space empty and me with a big question about what that comment actually says and is it appropriate. It almost looks like the program is defaulting to the lowest common denominator of being used on an 8 inch screen and does not take into account the actual size of the display it is being used on. I'm not sure if it's even possible but making it auto scale to the side of the display is being used on would be nice. I know it can be done on web pages but then those are usually HTML not Java.

[Dominic Maricic]

If you flip to another tab and then come back does it resize to the correct width?

[Dana Bostick]

Don't know, I'll try that later and let you know.

[Cameron Anderson]

Here's a recent discussion we had on that "comments shortened" question.  Not sure if there is a perfect answer for it yet.

http://www.homeinspectorpro.com/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=183&jfile=index.php&topic=3376

It makes a lot more sense to use "The window in the <<list>> bathroom could not be opened", than to list each and every possibility as an individual comment.

That's a good point. I've also replaced comment portions like the "could not be opened" part of your example with another list:

 is painted shut
 could not be opened
 has a cracked pane
 has missing hardware
 has damaged hardware
 is butt ugly

Ok, maybe not that last one, but the list has just about all the window defects which are possible.  I took a closer look at my lists and it looks like I have two main types:

     “component” lists – for example, “Roofing Components” would have “valley, ridge, attic vent, drip edge, etc.”, or “Structural Components” has “joist, beam, post, wall, piers, footing, etc.”

     “defect” lists – for example, “Roofing Defects” has “torn shingles, cracking, curling, damaged, etc.”

I didn't really plan it but those two types of lists seem to hit 80-90% of my comments.  I basically have a defect list and a components list for each major section of the template.  This type of comment building and list usage seems to work best on defects which would have somewhat uniform recommendations.  So for the roof, many of the defects one would find would lead to leakage and since it's not a good idea to recommend the client jump up there and fix it, the standard recommendation might be “Recommend repairs by a qualified roofing contractor to prevent or stop leakage.”

You could also have several recommendations which are in a “Recommendation” list and then insert them as well. The lists certainly make comment building flexible, but you do have to be careful you don't bog yourself down with ten clicks just to build one comment.  Sometimes the list speed things up and sometimes they don't.

[Bob Elliott]

Cameron ,have you shared a template with us yet?
I would very much like to see yours, since I never bothered to implement the drop down feature much.