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Casey Patten
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« on: March 09, 2011, 06:39:40 PM » |
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Is knob & tube wiring tinned copper? I saw several wires today that look silver, and I'm pretty sure it's not aluminum.
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Bruce Ramsey
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Atlanta, Ga
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2011, 10:01:38 PM » |
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Knob and tube wiring has no insulation. That is why is must be in an open air environment. Don't see any bare wires in your photo.
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Bruce Ramsey, ACI
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Dominic Maricic
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2011, 12:10:52 AM » |
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I think he's talking about the 3 on the left in the back.
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Casey Patten
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 07:33:05 AM » |
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Yes, Dom, sorry I wasn't clear. Back left corner of the bar. Doh!  |
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Bruce Ramsey
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2011, 07:35:23 AM » |
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It could be tinned copper but still not convinced it is knob and tube. K&T does not have any insulation on it.
Usually much easier to find in the attic unless it is buried under insulation, which is a hazard.
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Bruce Ramsey, ACI
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Ron Gurgol
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2011, 11:21:42 AM » |
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It looks like there may be other issues with this box?
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DO IT RIGHT?
?? ?? ?? CALL CHECKED RIGHT!
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David Macy
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2011, 06:45:12 PM » |
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Casey
Do you have a pic of the top of the panel enclosure were the wires enter?
Yes it does look like knob & tube that can be tinned coated copper.
Knob & tube typically has the black loom coverings like the one pictured.
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Casey Patten
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2011, 08:16:12 PM » |
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Yes, there were MANY issues with the panel and wiring. I talked with a sparky today and he gave me a good run down on K&T. Too old to have aluminum, basically. It's either copper or tinned copper.
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Cameron Anderson
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2011, 11:27:30 PM » |
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Knob and tube wiring has no insulation. That is why is must be in an open air environment. Don't see any bare wires in your photo.
Wondering what you are referring to when you say knob and tube has "no insulation". The knob and tube in our area actually comes out of the walls with insulation like Casey's photo and a black loom sheathing, then the sheathing is stripped and the insulated neutrals and hots run through the knobs and tubes. Do you see knob and tube with open bare wires? That's down right scary. |
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Ron Gurgol
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2011, 07:45:58 AM » |
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I agree with Cameron Anderson. Knob and tube has insulation around it, but there is no jacket around them. Single strands so air can keep them cool. THAT IS KNOB & TUBE!
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Casey Patten
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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2011, 07:52:58 PM » |
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Thanks for the replies guys... Cameron & Ronald, where are you located? Dom will probably beat me to this, but put that in, and add your website info to the signature. Good for SEO!  |
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Cameron Anderson
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2011, 10:26:50 PM » |
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Casey,
Thanks for the SEO heads up!
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Ron Gurgol
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2011, 08:59:37 AM » |
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Casey,
Thanks
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Dana Bostick
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North Hollywood, CA
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Against the grain is a way of life.
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2011, 05:46:44 PM » |
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Knob and tube wiring has no insulation. That is why is must be in an open air environment. Don't see any bare wires in your photo.
Excuse me? I've never seen bare wire knob and tube unless of course it has rotted off or the rats have chewed it off. The wires are insulated with rubber impregnated cloth. |
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David Macy
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2011, 06:18:54 PM » |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob_and_tube_wiring2 versions like the article states. I love when clients, home owners finish the 2nd, 3rd floors and or attic and leave the old wiring and under insulated/ventilated with a lack of heat. But the finishing sure is pretty.
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Casey Patten
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« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2011, 06:47:28 PM » |
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Excuse me? I've never seen bare wire knob and tube unless of course it has rotted off or the rats have chewed it off. The wires are insulated with rubber impregnated cloth. [/quote] Dana, don't the cooked rat bodies attached to the K & T wires give that away!???!  |
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Fred Sweezer Sr.
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Long Beach, CA 90806
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« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2011, 06:53:17 PM » |
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This electrical panel have several nob and tube feeds in it and the feeds are insulated, the feeds in question are old and the insulation is dry and about to peel off by it self, this need to be called out as a safety hazard, not only that if the insurance adjuster see it, it will be a claims issue, even if the code have "grandfathered it in" for approval" that is the issue with knob and tube, if you have insulation in the attic you should call that out in your report as well, because knob and tube is not to be buried insulation for insurance reason as well as fire issues!
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Cameron Anderson
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« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2011, 08:05:48 PM » |
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Hey guys, I noticed in the photo the neutrals are doubled up on some of the busbar terminals. That's a no-no in our county and you can't double up a ground with a neutral either. Only the grounds can be double-tapped on a busbar around here.
Do any of your areas have similar requirements and does anyone know what the thinking is behind it? I haven't really ever heard the reasoning aside from guaranteeing your neutrals have a solid connection.
Any thoughts?
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Casey Patten
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« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2011, 08:28:25 PM » |
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Cameron, I always call out any double taps...neutrals, hots, whatever. I've had electricians laugh at me (Everyone does it, what's the big deal)...but I still do it.
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Bruce Ramsey
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Atlanta, Ga
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« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2011, 07:18:53 AM » |
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If you have mulitple wires under a single lug, both wires may not have good contact which can lead to arcing.
Multiple wires of different sizes and the larger wire will get held by the lug but the smaller wire rattles around leading to arcing.
Read the specific panel label. Most allow up 2 grounds of the same AWG under a single lug. Some allow up to 3 ground of the AWG under a single lug.
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Bruce Ramsey, ACI
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